The Spoonman
Are Humans Getting Smarter or Dumbing Down?
Posted by spoonman Friday 5 September, 2008 07:35 PM
Are we humans - with all our modern access to education and information - getting smarter?
Or is there some process at work that is dumbing us down?
We hear that education standards are rising. Parents often comment about how smart their kids are, compared to how they were at the same age.
We have more university graduates now than at any time in our past.
We have access to the Internet, where basically anything you want to know is available at the click of a mouse. Except that not all of it is accurate.
We seem to be producing some very smart people who are making all sorts of stunning scientific and medical discoveries that would have been science fiction to previous generations.
That's the upside.
But it does seem sometimes that the smarter we like to think we are, the dumber many people seem these days.
We hear anecdotal evidence that kids are leaving school unable to write and spell in proper English. Judging from some of the emails I get, I'd believe that.
We keep hearing experts say that modern mass media is so dumbed down it is nearly worthless as a source of useful info. But it is popular.
Many people have spent hours of their lives watching so-called reality TV, which is about as dumb as it gets. But we love it, or did anyway. Some equally banal new format will no doubt emerge.
We are absorbed by celebrity scandal, when the really important or complex news stories and issues often slip under the public radar.
Many millions of people are getting into faith in a bigger way, at the expense of knowledge. They prefer to believe the story, rather than get the truth. And then kill the person who disagrees with them or believes a different story.
Huge numbers of people use way too many mind-altering substances too often, which makes them sound dumb. Think about some of the more incoherent callers to this show, if you want an example.
So where do you think we are heading?
Are we getting smarter? Or are we dumbing down?
Knock yourselves out......
Comments
Post a Comment | Comments (22)
Hi Spoony;
I actually got to speak with you last night, and you kind of cut me off. I know its nothing personal just business.
Anyway what I really wanted to say is that we are getting smarter and we are getting dumber. Thats one of those paradoxes that seem to be self contradictory and true at the same time.
When you look at The Flynn Effect (and you can Google it ,if you wish) its conclusions are very contraversial. But it does measure IQ from one gen to the next for the same age bracket going back 40 Years. And there is an increase, not across the board but in certain specific areas. But it also says that the increase peaked in the mid 90's.
Personally I believe that the bell curve on intelligence as measured by IQ is getting flatter. There seem to be more people spread out over a greater range.
And that would confirm that we are both dumber and smarter.
And as for Howard Gardner, I guess the caller after me was right, and perhaps I had got my thoughts crossed.
Cheers Pasquale
Posted by Pasquale Friday 5 September, 2008 11:00 PM
i'd have to say dumbing down i'm in victoria and i recall hearing when i was in year 12 in 04 that you can't fail year 12 which i think is stupid maybe if you could fail year 12 i would've put more effort in to make sure i didn't fail this could be part of the reasong theres more uni graduates maybe they've made it easier to graduate... Some of the callers on your show are definately a prime example of that take the truck driver from last night (Thursday) that kept running around in circles then there was the idiot who sms'd saying all truck drivers are dumb you can't brand people like that because of the job they do. Then theres the ones who keep listening to your show after saying they think its shit i'm with you there turn the fucking radio off if you don't like it...
Posted by kel Friday 5 September, 2008 11:15 PM
The Elite don't want u to think, they want u to consume, so they make money off u. They don't want u to think how badly u getting scr*wed.
i.e banks can change the rules anytime, you can't. Yet u are a sovereign and a bank limited liability, but a bank has more rights than u, debt slaves.
See Jordan Maxwell. Or Michael Tsarion +how our young r being conditioned
youtube.com/watch?v=fyW_szY_-7A
Posted by major Friday 5 September, 2008 11:42 PM
Ok it's me again. I want to add, dumbing down is necessary so u can control the sheep, we are the sheep.
Otherwise the sheep will start asking questions like: why is there a giant Obelix/phallic on the corner of Elizabeth and Bathurts st in Syd CBD? If the city is the female and the phallic is the male, then what is going on?
Or if you want to see why your name is in upper case on your bankcard then see: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xskiIi4zYGo&feature=related
Posted by major Saturday 6 September, 2008 12:49 AM
Ok it's me again. I want to add, dumbing down is necessary so you can control the sheep - we are the sheep.
Otherwise the sheep will start asking questions like: Why is there a giant Obelix/phallic on the corner of Elizabeth and Bathurts st in Syd CBD?
If the city is the female and the phallic is the male, then what is going on?
Or if you want to see why your name is in upper case on your bankcard then see: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xskiIi4zYGo&feature=related
Posted by major Saturday 6 September, 2008 01:06 AM
re: IPED
Cycle of Life II
A bicyclist crossing an airport runway in Sorocaba, Sao Paulo, Brazil, was killed when he was hit by a landing airplane.
Marcelo Dias dos Santos, 25, could not hear the plane coming because he was listening to his iPod on headphones, investigators said. (Reuters)
Posted by johnfrog Saturday 6 September, 2008 08:19 PM
Many of the callers were of the opinion that the part of the population that is less educated is getting dumber and the more educated are advancing. I have to disagree.
I have many friends who come from families who were never greatly intellectually stimulated and don't value being well read or anything like that.
These people spend hours on brain numbing TV and internet games, but their kids, who may have started off disadvantaged intellectually, have now far surpassed them.
This phenomena is due to a set of variables that I will concede aren't common, but a fair amount of time I see the education system working to produce curious minds that can grasp abstract concepts and once they have they thrive on the stimulus.
Two things though. First this is in VCE at a government school, so the group of students who are left don't include those who slipped through the cracks, who had behaviour problems or really trying circumstances or who weren't motivated enough.
So we are dealing with the top 70-80% who are studying subjects of their choice and that makes a difference.
Secondly. Even when this occurs it goes to waste when these students enter full time work or study that doesn't challenge them and they end up sliding back.
They have the intelligence to do more, but they end up little better than their parents, just in a slightly higher paid job and the social distinction of passing year 12.
Posted by May Sunday 7 September, 2008 04:23 PM
Dear spooney.
I heard your podcast on 'are we getting smarter or dumber'. Personally I would have thought that it would have been much more of a controversial subject, anyway.
I am a bus driver. This is not that I can't get a job elsewhere, I have an IQ of 142 (whatever that means) and also have a degree in Psychology.
I do the job because it pays well and regularly, and frees me up to do more study and lots of writing.
What driving a bus does give me is an intimate insight into what the common people are doing out there. From that I must say that there really seems to be a distinct lack of common sense out there.
Generally our ability to simply act in our own best interest has been lost. Personal safety, security has been put aside for other small pleasures.
Everything is so easy now that our basic need to survive has been lost. This can easily be seen in the way many people drive their cars as if they are invincible. Hooray for the Darwin awards.
In addition to this, we seem to have lost the need to be nice to each other. I know that you did a show on this sometime ago.
Part of my job is customer service. Customer service does get real hard when the customer appears to be intelligent, yet asks the most stupid of questions.
We get Uni students, that are Australian, so have spoken and read English (we hope) for most of their lives. Some of these uni students have not yet learned to read a bus timetable or the signs on the the bus.
This kind of no brainer customer service kinda gets a bit tiresome at times, especially when these so-called educated people talk down to the bus drivers,,, hey I have a degree, and can still read... This is made abundantly clear to me when English language students know how to read the time tables, and are far more polite that their Australian counterparts.
Having said all this, I don't believe that we are getting dumber. I believe that the level of intelligence out there has got better on a per-capita basis. It's just that many people simply couldn't be bothered to use it.
Our society has become so lazy, and at times so rude that we build walls around ourselves to protect us from the apathy out there. I know this is paradoxical, probably even an oxymoron.
This ease of life has had another affect on some people. If you show that you have some knowledge, some people are frightened of it. I rarely tell my work mates that I have a degree, let alone what subject I studied.
There also seems to be a race out there to see just how shallow we can be.
I don't think this makes a person happy. I don't believe that Australians are generally happy people anymore! Anyway I have had my ramble.
Posted by Chris Sunday 7 September, 2008 11:20 PM
As a species we are getting dumber.
There are only a small percentage of our species that are contributing to the advancement of the human race. The rest are too busy trying to buy things or defend their "GODS" honor.
Humans may have biologically evolved in terms of brain size, but we still don't use the the full capacity of muscle power in our brains.
From a natural selection point of view, too many humans are surviving. We are allowing humans with defective and weaker jeans to survive through modern medicine.
But advancements in modern technology have not kept up with advancements in modern medical science.
Thus allowing more humans to survive, but not producing enough energy to sustain the increase in population.
I will clarify my remarks by saying that thanks to modern medicine I have been kept alive despite my defective jeans.
I am glad that I am alive but I know that my jeans will further dilute the jean pool.
Posted by Ryan Monday 8 September, 2008 01:50 PM
Some people are getting smarter, some are getting dumber. Those who are dumb tend to breed with each other, and those who are smart tend to breed.
Eventually we will end up with two human species - a smart that has evolved and a dumb one that has devolved.
Smart couples don't have as many children because they're busy having careers and doing worthwhile things rather than popping out kids and living on the welfare system, so the dumb species will be a lot larger. But the smart species will keep them under control.
Eventually, however, the dumb species will out populate the smart species to such an extent that they will defeat them. Then humanity will be doomed forever. The end.
Posted by Vivienne Monday 8 September, 2008 09:46 PM
I definitely believe the majority are getting dumber.
I find many people just can't think for themselves and don't know the simplest of things, it's very exasperating and startling in the year 2008.
I think the majority of the generating coming up can barely tie their own shoelaces, let alone get a degree and they don't seem to be interested anyway.
They're more interested in become profession gamers, oh yeah that's a edifying career and geez are we in trouble!
Posted by Dianne Tuesday 9 September, 2008 02:16 PM
I believe that there is a greater inequality in intelligence. ie: the less intelligent are becoming even less intelligent, and the more intelligent are becoming more intelligent.
Also there is the problem of measuring intelligence. IQ tests people say. Well yes on average we are performing better, compared to the past, however is that due to becoming any more 'intelligent' or just due to the fact we are getting better at taking IQ tests as many experts say.
Posted by Callum Tuesday 9 September, 2008 09:01 PM
I think that we have induviduals that are streaking ahead, making important discoveries etc, but the rest of the population makes our society as a whole look dumb.....
Posted by Sam Wednesday 10 September, 2008 12:56 PM
i recently watched a movie called idiocracy. it is about 2 people that were frozen in time to tell everyone in the future what was going on now... they were forgotten about. they woke up some 5000 years later and the world was really reallly really dumb, they even started watering plants with sports drinks because it had electrolights in it. i dont think that the world is going to turn out like, but i think we are, in a sense becoming dumb, we are becoming so smart that we may reverse our evolution rate!... if that makes any sense to anyone else!
Posted by Hayley Tuesday 16 September, 2008 05:22 PM
How many local councils replace 5 states? I am a proponent of "no state goverment" by the way.
Posted by Edward O'brien Tuesday 16 September, 2008 11:53 PM
If I was P.M. like Kevin Rudd I would make George W. Bush know that $700 billion dollars should be spent on better things like banning the guns in Central parts of the States Especially in Texas, Virginia and Alabama. What was his ambition??? I mean really spoony what is our lonely planet coming to when global warming hits our world like a rocket propelled missile aimed at planet earth. They are seriously not considering our Australia's Way of Life.... Thanks Spoony...
Best Wishes Lena Chenevier
Posted by Lena Chenevier Wednesday 24 September, 2008 11:20 PM
whoever thinks society is getting dumber or smarter aren't smart themselves and aren't looking at the bigger picture
we're not getting dumber we're getting lazier
just like jobs, white westerners say this: "those foreigners come here to take our jobs" BUT won't do it themselves because its a sh*t job
proof is overseas too i saw on latenight with letterman some politician guy goes "well some friend was talking said those foreigners like mexicans taking out jobs" when he asked if you would do it or not he replied "No way"
so you don't let foreigners to do your jobs but you won't do it yourself because the jobs are sh*t, isn't that slavery like the africa-americans??
few years ago on tv they said they had to export around 13000 or was that 30,000 (hmm) to australia
how is that relevant? well its not that data/info is not there, if anything its as easy as looking on the net, but people just dont' care, we've become just slobbish
Posted by Danny Thursday 25 September, 2008 12:10 AM
the word in getting dumber by the yr .
common cents is not common anymore
Posted by matt Wednesday 1 October, 2008 10:04 PM
Interesting comments gang.
I'm not sure I am as pessimistic about the future as Vivienne, mainly because the dumb people (as she calls them) are financially supported by the rich people.
Rich people get taxed and the bludgers get the welfare. That tap can be turned down or off completely. Kevin Rudd is trying to turn the tap down now, but typically targeting the wrong people, like old age pensioners and the disabled. They really need our collective help.
For a population of 21 million, we have nearly 12 million people on some form of government welfare payment. It is a joke, because most of it goes to the rich and middle classes, who should not need welfare money.
But back to the point.... The 'elite' as Major calls them, will not allow the great masses of 'sheep' to grow too large. Just large enough to provide a viable and growing market.
History shows any number of ways to lose your excess undesirables... send them to war, deport them (Spain is currently offering migrants living there $US15,000 to go home - seriously), ignore and abuse them and watch their communities implode (street crime generally, LA riots 1992, New Orleans 2005).
The real risk for the non or low breeding smart people is living too long.... long enough to be around for the fall-out from their 'smartness' to come back and bite them on the bum.
Because they don't have children as their major focus (it's all about me!) they have little care for the future, beyond their own life-spans. Even those with kids are confident the kids will be able to fix the impending mess, or learn how to deal with it.
And to an extent they are right. Our generations have managed to thrive in the politically, scientifically, economically and socially fractured world left by our forebears...we manage.
But considering what we are about to leave the future generations, just how hard might their struggle be?
We were gifted by comparison, I'm predicting.
We'll leave them a kinda sorta global economy - no bad idea. But it is bad when it is based on making fake money from someone else's debt.
The Wall St meltdown is a perfect example of why it is not sustainable. Eventually, the debt is called in and someone has to pay. In this case, it is the US taxpayers spending borrowed money to save the markets because they borrowed too much money. Doh!
In a global economy, the ripple effect of a major 'downturn' in one of the big national economies is, obviously, global. Not good.
But when it is set up properly and makes a profit from real things or services, a global economy is a very good idea. It isn't that way now.
What kind of environment will we leave them? Who knows, but it sure won't have the same stability that ours had and most likely will not support the same population at the same standard of living we have.
One or the other will have to give.... or both.
Again, another lesson from history. Choose any time, anywhere and the same principles apply. When you screw up your environment, you damage the economy and people either leave or starve, then die. Those few remaining will have a lower standard of living. Just ask the Aztecs, the Inca or the Maya. Ah sorry, can't.... their cultures died out.
We'll leave our kids desperate for cheap energy resources, because we used all the super-cheap oil and coal. But hey, we had fun!
Mineral resources will become scarce and expensive. We had a bit of a go at ways to get more from space, by mining asteroids (eventually), but we collectively stopped being really interested in anything 'spacey' about a half hour after the second lot of moon walkers arrived home. Except for aliens and UFO's, of course (sigh).
By that I mean we haven't sent a human being beyond low earth orbit since 1972, the final moon walk. Sure, plenty of probes and robots, lots of important new discoveries about Earth's backyard, but without any of the emotion and goodwill generated by manned space missions to somewhere else.
Why? Because people are expensive and probes are cheap. But imagine where we could be by now if just half the world's military expenditure per annum went into space and scientific research.
Many of this planet's future resources will come from other parts of the solar system. It is inevitable. The question is, will we humans be prepared when the need arises? How smart will our kids be?
We will leave insane amounts of waste to deal with - like 60 years worth of global nuclear waste we haven't bothered to secure properly. We can, we just haven't.
For the record, I am a fan of using nuclear energy to offset our growing energy needs in the short term, without any appreciable extra CO2 emissions, but we have to do it sensibly.
How many animals will our future kids be able to see in something resembling a natural habitat?
How many species will be seen on video only, because they became extinct on our watch? Our kids might never know the smell of most animals we know.
So why am I kinda confident about the future, given all that gloom and doom?
Easy. It just depends on the timescales you think in and and whether you mean 'my culture' when you say 'humans', or not.
To me, a human is a human, so whether American, Japanese or Chinese kids of the future set up a base on the moon or Mars first is rather moot.
Climate change will get bad, but not really bad for another generation or three. I hope.
Humans will not die out.
I'm assuming that there will be fewer people by then due to economic downturn caused by climate change and expensive, scarce resources and the subsequent conflict to get what is left of them (Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia et al is just the beginning).
But they will be much smarter, more sensible and aware of consequences than we are now.
History is full of the smart, inventing and evolving people winning out in the end.
I'm pretty sure they will work it out, but will look back on us as the dumb ones who selfishly made their lives harder than they needed to be.
We humans, for all our many faults, are an astonishing species. The only species we are aware of that has abstractly described the universe that spawned it.
It would be a shame for all that evolution to come to nothing.... wouldn't it?
Posted by Spoony Friday 3 October, 2008 05:08 AM
i don't agree fully with society is dumbing down but I agree that some students can't speak or write proper English. Some of the students in my grade probably need to do english as a second language because some exchange students speak and write it better than they do.
Posted by Craig Friday 3 October, 2008 07:01 PM
I used to think that the country was getting more violence & f*** wits, but then I thought if you put it all into ratio it probably hasn't changed, but since the population has gotten bigger there's naturally more of them.
Posted by Nathan Thursday 16 October, 2008 10:42 PM
People are getting more book smart and losing there common sense based on the fact that most kids in the last 10 years have been raised in a structured educational environment from pre-school to graduate school with no need or want to learn common sense.
Doing things that are unhealthy are now illegal, taking Darwin out of the equation.
With all of the entertainment options available now, people choose to watch what entertains them, not what they should know.
Posted by Chris G Sunday 9 November, 2008 07:38 AM